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 Post subject: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 4: Justice Ohio Style?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:13 am 
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I was going to add this to the Obama Brownshirts thread but decided it was significant enough to earn it's own topic. My bolding. :flame: :shoc:

Government computers used to find information on Joe the Plumber

Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:57 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch

"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."[snip]

Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.

Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.

It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.[snip]

Records show it was a "test account" assigned to the information technology section of the attorney general's office, said Department of Public Safety spokesman Thomas Hunter.

Brindisi later said investigators have confirmed that Wurzelbacher's information was not accessed within the attorney general's office. She declined to provide details. The office's test accounts are shared with and used by other law enforcement-related agencies, she said.[snip]

...Cuyahoga County court records do not show any child-support cases involving Wurzelbacher.

The State Highway Patrol, which administers the Law Enforcement Automated Data System in Ohio, asked Toledo police to explain why it pulled BMV information on Wurzelbacher within 48 hours of the debate, Hunter said.[snip]

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101

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Last edited by Unbalanced But Fair on Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:18 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:57 pm 
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They have no shame.
I'm sure Frau Brunner is really outraged.
:angry:


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am 
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Unfortunately, this sort of illegitimate access of electronic databases happens all the time. Remember the recent story of Homeland Security people illegally sharing sensitive overseas recordings that were of a highly personal nature?


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:02 am 
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Richard Saunders wrote:
Unfortunately, this sort of illegitimate access of electronic databases happens all the time. Remember the recent story of Homeland Security people illegally sharing sensitive overseas recordings that were of a highly personal nature?


True, but if I'm recalling the same incident, they didn't do it to influence an election. And the people they recorded hadn't simply asked a question on television. As far as I know that wasn't part of an agenda to suppress dissent. That's what makes this a much more appalling incident.

I blame Obama for much of this. When he told his supporters..."I want you to argue with them and get in their face," he wasn't so naive as to know how they would interpret that. And the fact that he has not said, "Look, this is the wrong way to behave. And vandalism, fraud, viloence, and illegal activities should not be part of this election. If you are a supporter of mine who is doing this I want it to stop." Oh sure, he says he denounces things but he isn't very forceful, he relies on his campaign staff to do most of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:21 pm 
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Today the Obama campaign is blasting away at Joe Wurzelbacher, but who will be the target tomorrow of expeditions into his or her personal and financial history? An average Joe or Josie who dares write a negative letter to the editor about the Messiah, a newspaper editor who endorses McCain-Palin, a Republican office holder interviewed on camera?

The Democrats' behavior is shameless. As if we didn't already know they wanted to shut down the exercise of the First Amendment, they're more than proving it now.


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:42 am 
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Unbalanced But Fair wrote:
True, but if I'm recalling the same incident, they didn't do it to influence an election. And the people they recorded hadn't simply asked a question on television. As far as I know that wasn't part of an agenda to suppress dissent. That's what makes this a much more appalling incident.

I blame Obama for much of this. When he told his supporters..."I want you to argue with them and get in their face," he wasn't so naive as to know how they would interpret that. And the fact that he has not said, "Look, this is the wrong way to behave. And vandalism, fraud, viloence, and illegal activities should not be part of this election. If you are a supporter of mine who is doing this I want it to stop." Oh sure, he says he denounces things but he isn't very forceful, he relies on his campaign staff to do most of that.

Well said. I certainly didn't mean to imply that I was excusing in any way this illegal activity. All I'm saying is that it is regrettably commonplace.

If elected, Barry is going to find out that it isn't easy to intimidate the Joe the Plumbers of the country into silence. You might be able to pull that (FBI files *cough* *cough*) with craven Washington insiders who care more about clinging to power than about personal integrity. But there are plenty of people who won't hesitate to "speak truth to power".


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:56 pm 
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Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency probing breach of data on 'Joe the Plumber'

Someone at child support unit accessed file
Monday, October 27, 2008
Brie Zeltner
Plain Dealer Reporter

Officials at the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency will be looking at the computer activity of an employee who may have accessed the personal information of the man who became famous as "Joe the Plumber" during the last presidential debate.

County Administrator James McCafferty said Sunday afternoon that the employee's computer had been "locked up" but that the agency had not been able to check the computer Friday for the activity in question.

McCafferty did not identify the employee, who he said works as a child support specialist. [snip]

"Certainly there will be disciplinary action if the staff person did this," McCafferty said. "Just because you have the ability to access the information, you certainly don't have the right to do that. That's private information."

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1225096281313510.xml&coll=2

There was no legitimate reason for this to happen. From the earlier article..."Cuyahoga County court records do not show any child-support cases involving Wurzelbacher." :rant:

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:03 pm 
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The punk who did this ought to be prosecuted the same way the punk in Tennessee who broke into Palin's e-mail account is. :angry:


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:04 pm 
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Inspector general investigating access to Joe the Plumber's personal information
Monday, October 27, 2008 11:33 AM
Updated: Monday, October 27, 2008 05:48 PM
By Randy Ludlow

The Columbus Dispatch

Ohio's inspector general is investigating why a state agency director approved checking the state child-support computer system for information on "Joe the Plumber."

Helen Jones-Kelly, director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services, confirmed today that she OK'd the check on Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher following the Oct. 15 presidential debate.

She said there were no political reasons for the check on the sudden presidential campaign fixture though the Support Enforcement Tracking System.

Amid questions from the media and others about "Joe the Plumber," Jones-Kelley said she approved a check to determine if he was current on any ordered child-support payments.

Our practice is when someone is thrust quickly into the public spotlight, we often take a look" at them, Jones-Kelley said... [snip]

Democrat Gov. Ted Strickland is satisfied that there are no political overtures to the check on Wurzelbacher, a spokesman said.[snip]

The State Highway Patrol is investigating the "unauthorized access," said Jennifer Brindisi, spokeswoman for Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers. Access to the account was given to the unidentified contractors four years ago, she said.

State Highway Patrol records indicate that investigators have a suspect, who is identified as a contractor for the Ohio Department of Insurance. The patrol has seized an agencycomputer as evidence.[snip]

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

My bold.

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:39 am 
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Unbalanced But Fair wrote:
Our practice is when someone is thrust quickly into the public spotlight, we often take a look" at them, Jones-Kelley said... [snip]

I'm sure you do, but that doesn't make it legal or right. :angry:


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:13 am 
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Richard Saunders wrote:
Unbalanced But Fair wrote:
Our practice is when someone is thrust quickly into the public spotlight, we often take a look" at them, Jones-Kelley said... [snip]

I'm sure you do, but that doesn't make it legal or right. :angry:


Actually it is probably illegal to even do that. Child support orders from the court and the information about earnings are all handled through a specific system. The information is sent to the agency, the agency doesn't generate it. The lottery winner example she cited was wrong too. In Ohio a specific law was written to cover lottery winniners. You don't go on fishing expeditions for any of this. She needs to be at least disciplined, if not fired.

Quote:
3770.071 Deducting child support or spousal support arrearage from award.
(A)(1) If the amount of the prize money or the cost of goods or services awarded as a lottery prize award is six hundred dollars or more, the director of the state lottery commission or the director’s designee shall require the person entitled to the prize award to affirm in writing, under oath, whether or not the person is in default under a support order. The director or the director’s designee also may take any additional appropriate steps to determine if the person entitled to the prize award is in default under a support order. If the person entitled to the prize award affirms that the person is in default under a support order, or if the director or the director’s designee determines that the person is in default under a support order, the director or the director’s designee shall temporarily withhold payment of the prize award and notify the child support enforcement agency that administers the support order that the person is entitled to a prize award, of the amount of the prize award, and, if the prize award is to be paid in annual installments, of the number of installments.

(2) Upon receipt of the notice from the director or the director’s designee, the child support enforcement agency shall conduct an investigation to determine whether the person entitled to the lottery prize award is subject to a final and enforceable determination of default made under sections 3123.01 to 3123.07 of the Revised Code. [snip]

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3770.071

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:28 am 
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Unbalanced But Fair wrote:
You don't go on fishing expeditions for any of this. She needs to be at least disciplined, if not fired.

Yep. She admits to doing something that they shouldn't be doing, and then acts like, "what's the big deal? We do this all the time." Which they undoubtedly do. And it is illegal every time they do it.

From anecdotal evidence, I think that these sorts of databases are routinely misused by people with access and idle or malicious curiousity.


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 2 'Just Looking'
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:48 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 2 'Just Looking'
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Checks on 'Joe' more extensive than first acknowledged

Tax, welfare info also sought on McCain ally
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:05 PM
By Randy Ludlow

A state agency has revealed that its checks of computer systems for potential information on "Joe the Plumber" were more extensive than it first acknowledged.

Helen Jones-Kelley, director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services, disclosed today that computer inquiries on Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher were not restricted to a child-support system.

The agency also checked Wurzelbacher in its computer systems to determine whether he was receiving welfare assistance or owed unemployment compensation taxes, she wrote.

Jones-Kelley made the revelations in a letter to Ohio Senate President Bill M. Harris, R-Ashland, who demanded answers on why state officials checked out Wurzelbacher.[snip]

"Given our understanding that Mr. Wurzelbacher had publicly indicated that he had the means to purchase a substantial business enterprise, ODJFS, consistent with past departmental practice, checked confidential databases ," she wrote.

"Not surprisingly, when a person behind in child support payments or receiving public assistance is receiving significant media attention which suggests that the person appears to have available financial resources, the Department risks justifiable criticism if it fails to take note and respond," Jones-Kelley wrote.

The results of the searches were not publicly released and remain confidential, she wrote. Wurzelbacher has said he is not involved in a child-support case and has not purchased any business.[snip]

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/29/joe30.html?sid=101

If she gets away with this crap, Ohio is even worse than I thought. :flame:

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 2 'Just Looking'
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:32 am 
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Unbalanced But Fair wrote:
"Given our understanding that Mr. Wurzelbacher had publicly indicated that he had the means to purchase a substantial business enterprise, ODJFS, consistent with past departmental practice, checked confidential databases ," she wrote.

"Not surprisingly, when a person behind in child support payments or receiving public assistance is receiving significant media attention which suggests that the person appears to have available financial resources, the Department risks justifiable criticism if it fails to take note and respond," Jones-Kelley wrote.

That is absolute BS. They didn't like what this guy was saying, so they went out of their way to try to dig up dirt on him. :angry:


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 2 'Just Looking'
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:28 am 
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Quote:
when a person behind in child support payments or receiving public assistance
Neither of which describes Joe W. Facts can be so inconvenient.


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 2 'Just Looking'
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:43 am 
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Barney wrote:
Quote:
when a person behind in child support payments or receiving public assistance
Neither of which describes Joe W. Facts can be so inconvenient.


To be fair, he's speaking hypothetically. If someone were to owe back payments and become notorious or famous, it certainly is in the state's interest to make sure he does not owe money.

This should, of course, be done professionally and privately and not for political gain.

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 2 'Just Looking'
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:45 am 
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SoothingDave wrote:
Barney wrote:
Quote:
when a person behind in child support payments or receiving public assistance
Neither of which describes Joe W. Facts can be so inconvenient.


To be fair, he's speaking hypothetically. If someone were to owe back payments and become notorious or famous, it certainly is in the state's interest to make sure he does not owe money.

This should, of course, be done professionally and privately and not for political gain.


Actually...no. Reports of income changes are generated by the courts, feds, and the lottery system. This agency does not simply use a media report to investigate anyone. When I worked in these government programs we were absolutely forbidden to "look into" anyone without direct orders from the court, law enforcement, or someone that was approved , such as the IRS.

CHeck out my next post to see what really transpired. Heads should be rolling. :flame:

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 2 'Just Looking'
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:50 am 
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State employee says she was ordered to check out Joe the Plumber

Friday, October 31, 2008 10:21 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch

Vanessa Niekamp said that when she was asked to run a child-support check on Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher on Oct. 16, she thought it routine. A supervisor told her the man had contacted the state agency about his case.

Niekamp didn't know she just had checked on "Joe the Plumber...[snip]

Niekamp told The Dispatch she is unfamiliar with the practice of checking on the newly famous. "I've never done that before, I don't know of anybody in my office who does that and I don't remember anyone ever doing that," she said today.[snip]

About 3 p.m. on Oct. 16, Niekamp said Carrie Brown, assistant deputy director for child support, asked her to run Wurzelbacher through the computer. Citing privacy laws, Niekamp would not say what, if anything, was found on "Joe."

On Oct. 23, Niekamp said Doug Thompson, deputy director for child support, told her she had checked on "Joe the Plumber." Thompson "literally demanded" that she write an e-mail to the agency's chief privacy officer stating she checked the case for child-support purposes, she said.

Thompson told her that Jones-Kelley said Wurzelbacher might buy a plumbing business and could owe support. Thompson said he replied that he "would check him out."[snip]

Worried about her $69,000-a-year job and potential criminal charges, the 15-year state employee said she went to Inspector General Thomas P. Charles on Oct. 24. She has seen employees fired, and dismissed one herself, for illegally accessing personal information in support cases. Niekamp, a registered Republican, said politics played no role in what she told investigators.[snip]

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/31/joe.html?sid=101

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 3: The Smoking Gun
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:01 pm 
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Sorry but Integrity is saying No and reporting to the IG, not doing something wrong and saying "oopsie! I better CMA" afterwards. i hope these state employees who ordered and did these checks are fired and prosecuted. :flame:

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 3: The Smoking Gun
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:17 am 
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Jones-Kelley put on paid leave by governor

By William Hershey
Staff Writer

Friday, November 07, 2008

COLUMBUS — Helen Jones-Kelley, director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services and former head of that department in Montgomery County, has been placed on paid administrative leave by Gov. Ted Strickland.

Strickland said on Friday, Nov. 7, that he took the action "due to the possibility, as yet unconfirmed, that a state computer or state e-mail account was used to assist in political fund raising."

"I have asked Inspector General Tom Charles to include this matter in his current, ongoing investigation," Strickland said in a press release.[snip]

The new development drew a charge of cover-up from Kevin DeWine, deputy chairman of the Ohio Republican Party.

"Gov. Strickland showed poor judgment by rushing to defend these questionable practices before getting all the facts," DeWine said in a press release. "And his decision to wait until five o'clock on a Friday afternoon after the election to take action smacks of a cover-up."[snip]

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/11/07/ddn110708helenweb.html

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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 4: Justice Ohio Style?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:14 am 
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Paid leave? :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Then They Came for Joe: UPDATE 4: Justice Ohio Style?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:46 am 
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Richard Saunders wrote:
Paid leave? :roll:


Two words: Government employee.
If she gets fired, they'll probably take it off her accumulated leave--assuming she has any.


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